The London Ballet Circle - Promoting interest in dance and kindred arts

Peter Martins
Ballet Master in Chief, New York City Ballet
15 March 2008
Phoenix Artists Club, London WC2

Robin Key, Chairman of the London Ballet Circle, warmly welcomed Peter Martins and Company on their long-awaited return to London and began by asking Peter how the Company’s programmes had been selected.

PM: It has been 25 years since our last visit and a whole generation has grown up in that time and I wanted to show them a broad picture of the New York City Ballet. I chose three of the great seminal Balanchine ballets (Serenade, Agon and Symphony in C)and it was also important to do Robbins (The Four Seasons, Moves, The Concert) because of the 10th anniversary and I also wanted to show what else we can do apart from Balanchine and Robbins. Four Voices is by choreographers who are still alive.(Wheeldon: Carousel, Martins: Zakouski, Bigonzetti: In Vento, Ratmansky: Russian Seasons). The last programme was selected as a result of a request that we should bring something popular. It shows the broad range of the Company. (Ballet and Broadway: Martins: Thou Swell, Balanchine: Tarantella, Balanchine: Western Symphony, Robbins: West Side Story Suite)

RK: You decided not to bring a full-length performance.

PM: The sponsors didn’t ask for it and we did not insist on it – after all, you don’t take coal to Newcastle!

RK: How would you describe the mood and spirit of New York City Ballet at the moment?

PM: I think there is a very good atmosphere and morale. We are probably the youngest ballet company – our average age is 21 or 22 years old. There is a huge generational shift about to occur. It is not a deliberate attempt to get younger people, its just one of those things that happens. We have so many young dancers coming out of our school, I feel obliged to try to take them.

RK: What do you look for in the dancers that you bring into the Company?

PM: That’s a very good question and a very complicated answer. I’ll give you some of the characteristics: Intelligence– because you have to understand what you are getting into and be smart enough to deal with the ups and downs of life in a big ballet company; Musicality, Diligence, Commitment, Talentand a nice Physique.That’s a tall order.

RK: But you find them.

PM: No, we are making them. We don’t audition. New York City Ballet is unique in the sense that, unlike other companies, we don’t hold auditions. We have our School of American Ballet associated with us in New York – 90%+ come into the Company. Consequently, we have a unified style and look to the Company.

RK: You trained and first danced in Denmark. Tell us how that style influenced you and your career outside that country.

PM: You will have heard of August Bournonville, the French/Danish Choreographer who made and moulded the Danish Royal Ballet very much in his image. Balanchine was a big admirer or Bournonville. Once I asked Balanchine why he liked Bournonville and he said it was because all his steps were entertaining.

Our training in Denmark was fantastic for the Balanchine technique because it emphasised the fast footwork that Balanchine wanted. Those of us who came from Denmark and joined Balanchine’s company were better equipped than the Russians who were a little slower.

RK: How did the move to the New York City Ballet from Denmark come about?

PM: It happened in Great Britain. In 1967 the New York City Ballet was in Edinburgh at the Festival and the Company was about to do Apollo. The day before the premiere Jacques d’Amboise fell ill or injured himself and Balanchine was desperate to find someone to dance Apollo. He called every European company looking for an Apollo but nobody was available. He then called a great Russian teacher in Denmark who said “Well Mr Balanchine, we have a young boy who has just learnt it. He might be available.” Balanchine said “Send him!” So within eight hours I was on a plane. I met Balanchine on the streets of Edinburgh and I remember him saying to me “Welcome”, he was very polite. He told me to go and take a nap because he thought I must be exhausted and I said “You don’t get jet-lag from Copenhagen!” So he said “Well, you go and rest anyway.” We rehearsed that afternoon and he never said a word to me - he just let me rehearse. The premiere was a triumph - I saved all the reviews. And I saved the show. I did Apollo every night for a week and then I went back to Denmark and Balanchine went back to New York. About a month or two later I got a telegram with an invitation from Balanchine to join the New York City Ballet – so I did.

RK: What are your principal recollections of George Balanchine? What was he like to work with?

PM: Contrary to what people may think, he was one of the easiest people to work with. I don’t mean to suggest that he wasn’t demanding. He was such a pleasant personality. He was so giving and had such a wonderful sense of humour. He was always someone I looked forward to seeing. In terms of time, he took the minimum rather than the maximum. He was a delight to work with.

RK: He taught you not to over-teach?

PM: He taught you the steps and then he let you do what you felt – unless you were a disaster. For the most part, he let you do it your way.

RK: How do you maintain and pass on that special Balanchine genius within the Company?

PM: You can’t pass on that genius but you can pass on that spirit and that lesson on how he treated people. You can try to convey this to the next generation and make sure that they understand that we are all here to honour and service the art-form that we all love, admire and respect. He used to say “I am always accused of having no stars” and he said to me often “This is not true, I have many stars. What I don’t have are prima donnas.” Of course, there is a big distinction there. We all conducted ourselves in the right manner because of his attitude and spirit.

RK: Do you see other companies performing Balanchine’s work?

PM: Yes.

RK: How do you feel about it? It always seems a little bit extra special when it’s done by your Company.

PM: I have great respect for the other companies. I know them all and have danced with many of them. There are many ways to dance Balanchine. Just like Mozart and Beethoven – there are many ways you can play their music and they are all legitimate. Naturally, I am biased. I like the way we do it because of the emphasis on the musicality.

RK: Which of the Balanchine works do you enjoy the most?

PM: The one I am watching! It sounds funny but the other night I watched Serenade and although I have seen it many, many times in performance and even more in rehearsal, I said to myself ‘This has got to be the most beautiful thing ever made’. Then came Agon and I said, ‘No, this is better.’ Then came Symphony in C and I thought ‘No, no, this one is better! This is the one I like best.’

RK: You danced until the early 1980’s with the Company. Tell us one of your main performing memories.

PM: One little story that comes to mind is when I did Apollo in New York. Mr Balanchine eliminated the birth scene for some years because he didn’t like the scene where the mother gives birth to Apollo. So the first solo of Apollo, when the birth scene was there, was very specifically a baby being born and struggling. The steps were very specifically to display a young child struggling to his feet. I said to Mr B “Now that we don’t have the birth scene, I assume the ballet is a little more abstract. How do I do it now?” He said “You’ll figure it out” and I said to him “Are you going to give me any hints? Are you going to show me?” and he said “No, you’ll figure it out.” That was the epitome of Balanchine.

RK: Do you have any particular recollections of dancing with other companies or in other cities around the world?

PM: In London with Peter Wright’s productions. Is that you in the audience Peter? (Indeed Sir Peter was in the audience.)

RK: You have been choreographing for some years. How did that start?

PM: By sheer chance. There was a strike of the musicians in the New York City Ballet so as a consequence we were not employed. I put a group together. It was an experiment to see what it would be like to run our own group. I hired a choreographer to do two ballets and he came to me to say that he did not have time to do two ballets for the programme so he said “Why don’t you do it yourself?” So I did it and it was a big success. Then Mr B came to me and said “I hear you have done something. Can I have a look at it?” So I said OK but I was petrified and he then put it in the programme.

RK: Had he been an influence on your choreographic thinking?

PM: How could he not have been?

RK: Any other influences?

PM: Many. Balanchine - mainly because this is my home but not just out of proximity. I very much admired his craft. Obviously he was a great artist and genius but to me his craft was the most impressive. How he could turn out one ballet after another. He liked to describe himself as the perfect shoemaker “I am no better or worse than the man who makes a pair of shoes. My ballets are like a shoe.”

RK: Did you enjoy choreography? Did you take to it right away?

PM: Very much.

RK: Which of today’s choreographers do you find interesting?

PM: I like choreographers who like classical ballet. I think it is imperative for someone like me, and anyone in a position like mine, to invite people to choreograph – it’s a tradition of the New York City Ballet. Balanchine invited everyone and his brother. But I think it is important that they understand the language, the vocabulary, the pointe work for women, classical ballet technique and that they utilize it to the best of their ability.

Ten years ago I started the New York Choreographic Institute where I scout young talents who are interested in choreographing and I give them the opportunity to do that behind the scenes. Christopher Wheeldon comes to mind, he was my choreographer for eight years and Alexei Ratmansky is doing a piece for us in a month or two.

RK: Share with us some of your recollections of working with Jerome Robbins.

PM: He was quite different from Mr Balanchine. Where Mr B would take an hour, Jerry would take four hours! He was very specific and would not allow you to do anything impromptu. He would tell you everything you had to do. It was just his way. They had two completely different approaches to dance-making. Jerry did wonderful work but, personally, I preferred to work with Mr B.

RK: Tell us about the early days of working with Robbins.

PM: Jerry would choreograph a piece on many, many different dancers. One day you would be called and the next day you were not called and very close to the premiere you had no idea whether you were in the first cast or not, whereas Mr Balanchine committed to you from Day One. So there was always this tension and you were left thinking “Am I good enough? Am I not good enough?” Often you were chosen but sometimes you were dismissed.

RK: Are there different issues involved in maintaining the Robbins as opposed to the Balanchine repertoire?

PM: No, the same principles apply to any ballet. We have 12 or 13 Ballet Masters and all of us worked with Jerry and Mr Balanchine and we spend more than 50% of our time taking care of those works – that is our primary purpose. We make sure they are respected, polished and performed with the right spirit and with all the right emphasis that those guys talked about all the time. We are their direct descendents.

RK: Is Moves, a ballet without music, a particularly challenging work for the dancers?

PM: Yes, the dancers are very tuned into each other. It is a unique ballet and I wanted to bring it because I’m not sure if it has been seen here. There is a story behind it. I’m not sure if I have it exactly right but I heard that it was not intended to be a ballet without music. I think he had asked Aaron Copeland to write the music and either he didn’t get it in time or he didn’t like it but he ended up by circumstance not having music and he decided to go on without it.

RK: Tell us about the full-length ballets you have choreographed and whether that was an enjoyable experience.

PM: I loved it. Lincoln Kirstein, the man who met Balanchine and invited him to come to New York City, said to me around 1989/1990, after Mr B had gone, “We are doing Sleeping Beauty” and I said “Are we?” Lincoln Kirstein was like Diaghilev and he “Yes, we are.” And I then asked “Who is the ‘we’? Who is going to choreograph this Lincoln?” He then said “That’s a good question. You and Jerry.” I then said “Have you asked Jerry?” Lincoln said “No, you ask Jerry” Well, I didn’t ask Jerry - I took it on myself.

I re-thought the whole process of Sleeping Beauty. I investigated and I did research and I did my own version which, in my view, is very much a tribute to Petipa – but it’s very different from the one I’m going to see on Monday night (the Royal Ballet’s 2006 production).

RK: What about some of the other classics you have worked on. How did they come about?

PM: It was the same thing. I did my own Swan Lake some years back. I did my own Romeo and Juliet. Some people love them and some don’t but I am very happy with them.

RK: You are widely credited with a very interesting use of music. Tell us about how you bring music and choreography together.

PM: In 1988 I did an American music festival because being an immigrant I was always fascinated by America and I was always astonished by how little American music was being played around the world. In comparison to the great masters like Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Stravinsky, I felt American music was in short supply. I wanted to investigate this and so I invited ten choreographers and we did 21 world premieres. It was a huge success from many perspectives although it was not a big critical success. But many of the ballets done at that time are still in the repertoire.

RK: Earlier, we mentioned Wheeldon and Ratmansky. Tell us about some of the other new choreographers that the Company is working with.

PM: We just had a premiere by Mauro Bigonzetti, who is from Florence. He has done three ballets for us. There are also some young people in the New York City Ballet who are very promising. There are gifted people out there who have a desire to choreograph and who understand classical ballets. So it’s just a case of giving them the opportunity.

RK: Has the Diamond Project this been helpful in identifying new choreographers?

PM: Yes, absolutely. The Project is named after Irene Diamond, a philanthropist, who died. She supported my vision of bringing new choreography to the stage. It was very daring and she was tremendously supportive, so I named it in her honour. When I did that, I got warned about the potential headlines “Diamonds in the rough” and they were sometimes but some diamonds came out of it too.

RK: You see ballet across the United States and around the world. Do you think the classical ballet art-form is in good shape?

PM: There are those people who keep saying “When Ashton died”, “When Balanchine died”, “When Robbins died”, “When MacMillan died” or “When Antony Tudor died, ballet died too.” I don’t subscribe to that idea. OK, we are not going to replace those five people – in just the same way that we are never going to replace Beethoven, Mozart and Bach. But does anyone think that music died with Beethoven, Bach and Mozart? No. It’s the same with ballet – it will continue. However, as I said before, you have to speak the language and learn the vocabulary. New ballets will not look like the ones by all those guys I mentioned, but the art-form will survive.

RK: As the Chairman of the Faculty of the School of American Ballet, you can influence that process. Are you able to find the right teachers to maintain that tradition?

PM: Yes, absolutely. The teachers at the School of American Ballet are former dancers with the New York City Ballet. Everybody teaches the same aesthetic – they don’t teach the same way but they all speak the same dialect.

RK: Our own Christopher Wheeldon was your Resident Choreographer until last year. Were you pleased with that period?

PM: Of course – that’s why I invited him! Now he is ‘big time’ and doing his own thing and I wish him all the best. It’s tough to start on your own and it’s bold of him to do it and I just hope that he will stick with it. I think it is a courageous move and I think all of us in the dance world should wish him good luck.

RK: Are you keen to work more with Alexei Ratmansky?

PM: Yes, he is doing a ballet for me in about six weeks’ time. He’s done a ballet called Russian Season which we are doing on Tuesday night. It is a very successful ballet. He is very gifted.

RK: There has been some talk about you changing your venue from the Lincoln Centre.

PM: No, we are not leaving. That is referring to the New York City Opera which has been talking about going elsewhere. No, we are lucky to have our theatre. Arguably, New York State Theatre is the greatest theatre for ballet in the world. Many critics claim that. It has been my home for 40 years so I would think that. But the sightlines are wonderful and it is perfect backstage. It is a fantastic theatre and we are lucky to have it.

There then followed a statement by Sir Peter Wright, President of the London Ballet Circle:
I want to say how thrilled I was at your opening performance. I was there then and I have just come from the matinee this afternoon. You mentioned Serenade. That’s my favourite ballet. When I retired from the directorship of the Birmingham Royal Ballet I had it in the gala. I have seen Serenade so many times but for me your opening performance was a revelation. I have never seen it danced better. Everything about it was magnificent. I love the way your Company move - especially the way the girls swing their hair around! I loved the way the whole programme went. It was a night I shall never forget. (The audience endorsed Sir Peter’s remarks with applause.)

PM: You have no idea what this means to me to hear this because here is a man who knows what he is talking about. There is nothing more important than to hear words like that from someone like Peter Wright, so I am very grateful. Thank you.

A member of the audience then compared different companies’ interpretations of Balanchine and believed New York City Ballet’s performances had greater depth.

PM: We live and breathe these ballets day in, day out so we have a familiarity with these works which puts us at an advantage. It’s what we are used to – it’s in our DNA. Those of us who worked with Mr B and Jerry pass on that DNA to our immediate successors.

A member then asked how Peter’s production of Romeo and Juliet had come about.

PM: It was one of the greatest moments of my life. I had been thinking about doing Romeo and Juliet for about 25 years on and off but had put it off because I thought “Who needs another Romeo and Juliet?” There are a number of good versions out there so I thought that unless I had a real vision I might as well not do it. But I did have a vision of it and I found my designer. I decided to have a 17 year old Juliet and an 18 year old Romeo and it was very controversial but most critics loved it although some didn’t but the public went wild. I would love to do it again but I don’t know about bringing to London!

A member said that he hoped the New York City Ballet would return again to London soon.

PM: I hope we can be here again next year.

A member asked if Peter would consider bringing A Midsummer Night’s Dreamon his next visit.

PM: I most certainly would. I think it is one of Mr Balanchine’s greatest works. He gets very little credit for being a great storyteller but he found a really great way to tell that story.

A member asked if Night Shadow was still in the Company’s repertoire.

PM: Yes, but we now call it La Sonnambulaand we did it just a couple of weeks ago. Our repertoire is so vast, we have about 200 what we call ‘active’ ballets in the repertoire and in each season we do about 40-45 of them, so they each come back every two or three years.

A member then praised the playing of the orchestra which was accompanying the New York City Ballet’s performances at the London Coliseum.

PM: I totally agree. I think the Orchestra sounds fantastic. My Music Director is Fayçal Karoui, he is French and we only hire him last year. Also the acoustics are great at the Coliseum. Also, it’s a pick-up orchestra. The other day when they were rehearsing our fourth programme, I said “These Brits can really play American music!”

RK: When you return to New York, it will be to a very busy season. What will be some of the key features of that season?

PM: Our Spring season is a tribute to Jerome Robbins, celebrating the 90th anniversary of his birth and marking the 10th anniversary of his death. We are doing a true retrospective – we are doing 33 of his ballets and altogether we are doing 55 ballets in the Spring season. This is what we do. This is what we are about.

A member asked about the Company’s future plans for touring.

PM: We will be in Copenhagen in September, followed by Paris at the Bastille for two weeks in September. Every year we go to the Kennedy Centre in Washington in March and in the following Fall we will be going to Tokyo and we may go to the Far East and to China.

RK: You were quoted in the papers saying that you still have unfinished business at the New York City Ballet. Looking ahead through the next 3-5 years, what do you hope to achieve?

PM: Over the last 25 years I have been trying to maintain the repertoire and create a whole new repertoire by looking for future choreographers. That’s a big, ongoing task. Last but not least, I feel like a father because I train all these dancers in the School and I want to bring them all into the Company. I just want to mould them and guide them and find the right ballet to put them in and then to see them bloom. The only problem is that when they bloom, there is a whole new batch! I just keep making them! We strive for excellence.

On behalf of the members the Chairman thanked Peter for taking time out of his very hectic schedule and said how much everyone was enjoying the New York City Ballet’s performances in London and how much everyone hoped that the Company would return soon.